1. What is a fabula, and in what sense is 'the loathly lady' theme one? (you can google this one...)
2. What does Carter (2003) have to say about Chaucer's 'feminism'? In what sense is the Wyfe of Bath's Tale and in what is it not 'feminist'?
3. What according to Hahn (1995) are some critical issues around The Wedding of Sir Gawain...?
4. What does Hahn identify as its Celtic influences?
5. How do each of the three versions I've given you differ, especially in relation to the choice the knight/king must make?
question 1.
ReplyDeleteBasically a fabula is a fable or tale that has some key main events that can be retold in a variety of ways,
With regards to the loathly lady there are a few events that are retold in the various versions of the story.
The first is the meeting of the gratuitously ugly lady, then there is the act of submitting to this "loathly lady" be it a kiss marriage sex etc, after this kiss or what ever the "loathly lady" changes form into a beautiful women and the young knight is rewarded in some way.
I think these are the key events that make up the fabula of the loathly lady.
I agree with hayden there, then again there are too many versions in which the whole story of "hideous freaks turns beautiful at night/morning" and its been retold so many times that the common reader is not really impressed with that line anymore. In some cases shes a really ugly woman, some other cases shes a frog in the morning ... and i think the idea of it is not just the theme of changing from one look to the other as much as it states that there is much more to a person than the physical appearance... and this might sound funny to you guys but i remember i read a story in 2nd grade called " The ugly Duckling" and i can really see how it (the duckling) relates to the loathly lady coz she turns intoa pretty swan in the end haha
ReplyDeleteOh!! by the way another copy of the loathly lady that i forgot to mention is SHREK!!!
ReplyDeleteWell, “Ugly Duckling turning to Swan”, and “Hag to Beauty”, very interesting fables, aren’t they? But how much is this kind of tale related to the gender theory? According to Carter’s (2003) observation, we can find some clues of Chaucer’s “feminism”. E.g.
ReplyDelete1. Chaucer uses this tale to express some (arguably not his own) “radical ideas on gender theory”, the “liberation from gender restriction” (Reader, 84)
2. Compared with Gower who intends on “promoting ideas of masculine behavior”, Chaucer “plays with its slippage, ambivalence and reversal of gender roles” (ibid, 83)
3. Chaucer sort of feminizes the royal court, traditionally patriarchal. This could be interpreted as “a challenge to male domination”.
4. Chaucer is interested in “gender power imbalance” embodies in the knight rape (ibid, 89)
We could not exhaust the list if we’d like to make. However, for some, it is far-fetched to equip the old tale with modern gender theory, which could be suspected as “for the sake of theory”; while for others, Carter’s observation is like “pouring new wine into an old bottle” (a Chinese old saying).
Adnan, I was around at your pad the other day and saw a copy of the ugly duckling sitting on your table, read it in the 2nd grade my ass. Refresh my memory, which is the fable when the woman starts off as a frog in the morning? I've never read/heard that one before. Kermit could be in business.
ReplyDeleteThe 'loathly lady' has been the basis for so many stories including Shrek, which I thought was really refreshing, it was essentially the tale of the 'loathly lady' but in this case it's not so transparent. We have no idea that Princess Fiona turns into an ogre when the sun goes down until halfway through the movie. People are usually judged on first impressions and appearances and Shrek gives himself no chance at all, even though he is the unlikely hero and there is chemistry between the two. In this case Prince Charming is not perfect, he's an asshole and does not claim his reward, he makes her realise that Shrek is her one true love, with beauty on the inside, a great sense of humour and, being an ogre and all he's probably hung like a rogue elephant. He makes her feel real and beautiful no matter what she looks like and being judged by others has no impact on her or Shrek.
Talking about question 2, there is a strong argument that Chaucer could have been a feminist (I wonder what his buddies would of thought of that down at the local beer hall?).
ReplyDeleteHe created such strong female characters, which is very strange for that period of time and the society he lived in. Chaucer does create powerful/traditional male characters in the sense that they are brave knights and savage in their action but he also explores the place of women at the time, “women desire to have sovereignty - as well over her husband as her love” (Chaucer, The wyfe of Bath's tale p4). Chaucer is expressing the notion of women having power and the quest to be more prominent in society, rather than just showing their love for a man. Women are independent thinkers and possibly comprehended on a larger scale than males at the time. The ability to think outside of sleep, eat, battle, sex, sleep! 'Chaucers external spaces signal the motif's tradition, while his court shows his craft in giving the wife subjectivity' (Carter, The Chaucer review, p330).
I do believe that Carter regards Chaucers portrayal of women stronger than that of males. She recognises Chaucers ability to explore the manipulative powers of a female in terms of bedroom endeavours and psychological prowess rather than any male characters, 'Chaucer's loathly lady directly relates to the Wife of Bath's obsession with the dynamics of hetrosexuality commerce: the manipulation of power ratios by desire, pleasure, and frustration' (Carter, the Chaucer review, p332).
Feminism can be related back to Shrek, up until now I perceived Shrek as a very masculine tale, he's a real 'ogres-ogre', a very hard, strong character but it becomes clear that he is dominated by the power (of a certain part of the female anatomy) and charisma of princess Fiona. Essentially, the crucial decisions fall on Fiona, kiss the prince and be externally perfect (hot)
or kiss the ogre and be internally beautiful.
I agree with Chen Hongs' comment about challenges to male domination.
3. What according to Hahn (1995) are some critical issues around The Wedding of Sir Gawain...?
ReplyDeleteI think that chivalry was a critical issue in "The Wedding of Sir Gawain". Hahn(1995, p99) says "Ragnelle explores the ties of chivalry through a structured repetition and variation of a fundamental pattern. This consists of a series of linked and interlocking oaths and commitments" I think this is one of the most critical issues because without it no wedding would have taken place as the knight could simply refuse, there would be no motivation for Gawain to marry her.
For number one question, I agree with what Adan has stated about the fact that people make perceptions and judements out of the first impression that they receive from each other..If I was a loathly lady, I would feel sad and meloncholy cuz nobody would like me just because of the fact that I am ugly, different from others...
ReplyDeleteAccording to carter (2003) the way in which chaucer presented the wife of bath in the story shows that he was a feminist, in how she was strongly opinionated and didnt not necessarily agree with her husband all the time. quote " nowhere better demonstrated than in the reconstitution of various misogynist diatribes into the charismatic Wife
ReplyDeleteof Bath, who talks back defiantly to “auctoritee."
5. How do each of the three versions I've given you differ, especially in relation to the choice the knight/king must make?
ReplyDeleteIn 'The wife of Bath's Tale', the knight submitted to the loathly lady's will relunctantly and out of desperation. She had power over him because she saved him for eventual death by giving him the answer to the question what do women most desire. Because of the debt he owed to her, he had no choice but to comply.
In King Henry, he submitted to the loathly desires wishes and desires out of chivalry.
In King Arthur Meets a really Ugly Woman story, the knight made the decision to wed the loathly lady out of loyalty to Arthur and to save his lfie.
I would like to discuss on the point how Jason said that the women had power over him because she saved him for eventual death-Because of the debt he owed to her, he had no choice but to comply... I feel a bit sorry for him, as he had no choice to overcome the obstacles only to respect her. He must have felt so awaful as he had to do things unwillingly not out of his motivation..
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to descover the fact that He created such strong female characters, which is very strange for that period of time and the society he lived in.
ReplyDelete“women desire to have sovereignty - as well over her husband as her love” (Chaucer, The wyfe of Bath's tale p4).
This could realte to the society we are livig in today how the women are prominent in society, rather than just showing the love and care for the men. It is also interesting that no chagne has made since that past period up till now....
Question 1:
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hayden, according to the online encyclopaedia, a fabula is a short story or fable. Sometimes based around animals as the characters; conveying a moral, typically a supernatural one incorporating elements of myth and legend (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O214-fable.html). The loathly lady can be classed as a fabula because the story is based around a moral. The moral of the story is the fact that beauty lies within. Too many people cast an opinion on others based on what’s on the outside, before they get to know the person.
Other stories that are based around a similar moral are, The Frog Prince and Beauty and the Beast. Both these stories are written about men with a spell on them, making them unattractive. The princess then has to fall in love with them based on their inner beauty and kiss them – breaking the spell.
However, I don’t agree with Adnam, The Ugly Duckling doesn’t really follow the same moral. I personally think that the moral is more along the lines of, don’t bully or put people down based on their appearance, because in time they will end up achieving more than you. I think this because the story is about a duckling who is ugly, so everyone is mean to him and doesn’t include him in their life. Over time he grows into a beautiful swan, and is then socially accepted by a pack of swans.
Question 2:
ReplyDeleteRight at the start of Carter’s (2003) article, she makes it extremely clear that she believes Chaucer is a feminist and that it’s important for people to understand the anachronism of this. Being a feminist was not the ‘correct’ way to think in that historical era. She then goes on to point out how Chaucer “plays with its slippage, ambivalence, and reversal of gender roles”, throughout the story. The wife is portrayed as a very strong woman, who has power over the knight. She can also be referred to as a “maistrie” (Wife of Bath, Line 1040), which is Old English for Master. Calling her a master would have been very controversial, as back in the late Middle Ages, men held all power and were usually considered as masters. One area Carter mentions as being anti-feminist is in the wife’s appearance, “he surrenders not to the romanticised woman projected by male desire, but to the woman conceived in the pessimistic terms of anti-feminism”.