Hi guys
Here are week 1/2's questions. Have a crack at them,
Paul
1. What, arguably, are some of the 'residual' features of 'primary orality' (as defined by Ong, 1982) in Voluspa?
2. How does Ong argue secondary orality differs from primary orality?
3. What is the difference between chirography and typography and how does he believe it affects human thought and textuality?
4. How do Old Norse and Old English literary sources such as Voluspa, Beowulf and Volsunga Saga inform The Hobbit according to Glen(1991)?
5. According to Shippey(2000) how do the idological motivations and use of language by many fantasy writers like Tolkien differ from the agenda of Modernism?
i just check whether it works or not. I haven't finished reading Shippey, but find it quite interesting to compare Tolkien and Joyce.
ReplyDeleteHi guys I've tryed to answer a couple of questions just to kick us of
ReplyDeleteQuestion 4.
According to Glen the dragon Smaug in the book the hobbit is informed by Beowulf.
“Beowulf is among my most valued sources” (critical reader page 53)
The idea of the evil dragon, the theft of his treasure and his eventual slaying are all obviously influenced by Beowulf.
It is also suggested that the character of Bilbo is a sort of “alternate to the heroic hierarchy of Northern story” for example rather than fighting the dragon and slaying it and dying himself, he returns home safely after someone else kills the dragon, another obvious difference is his size, hobbits are (relatively speaking) small and by extension considered weak or child like whereas a more typical northern hero would be tall and strong.
Question 5.
After reading the Shippey extract I kind of got the feeling that critics were “critical” of the Hobbit and LOTR because a lot of people liked it, by this I don’t mean they were jealous although they may have been.
“Populist, not elitist, It did not provide that comfortable sense of superiority to the masses without which the English speaking literary intellectual, it seems, cannot cope at all” (critical reader page 59) assuming that these critics were modernists, they did not like Tolkien’s works because they did not come off as superior something that ironically appeared to make them popular. Also modernists hate Tolkien’s work mostly because it is set in a “medieval era” and because it lends a lot of its theme to Beowulf.
The difference between chirography and typography is that chirography is handwritten texts and typography is printed (presumably typed) text.
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ReplyDeletehello, i just think that primary orality differs from secondary orality as primary orality is not wriiten or typed while secondary orality is wriiten or typed which makes it more reliable and credible, i havent dont the rest of the questions but will get to that very soon.
ReplyDeleteyour blog is so good......
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ReplyDeletehi, i failed to post comments at home, now trying again.
ReplyDeleteI'd focus on Question 5.
Though Shippey points out many differences in idological movitation and use of language between fantasy writers and the "elite" modernists, his commentary also arouses our attention to some similarities these two groups share. The question remains why those populists should have been labeled as "non-literary", "childish", or "balderdash". Silley seems to have tried to "correct" this bias.
i've got a question for Prof. Mountfort, which may not be quited related, but a general question: how do you distinguish this paper/course with other literature courses. At the beginning, you've coted some post-modernist thoery to make it different from the structualist way of reading. My question is :how could the specific feature of this paper/course "literature, language and desire" stand out or be embodied in the daily teaching and learning? i hope i've got myself across.
ReplyDeletei find it quite interesting way of organising a class and you are quite humonous. what i mean, a general literature course/paper could also be organised in this way, say, mixing lectures and group work together.
I think that Haydens comments reguarding Q4 are on the money.
ReplyDeleteI also believe that the Hobbit is heavily influenced and inspired essentially by Beowulf. Some similarities are in character(s) revelations. According to Glen (1991), 'Tolkien's summary of the placement of the Grendels in beowulf's life could equally apply to Gollum's place in Bilbo's development' (p53 course reader).
Question 1)
ReplyDeleteI agree with what most of them members have stated, that primary orality is not wriiten or typed while secondary orality is wriiten or typed which makes it more reliable and credible.
Question 3)
ReplyDeleteI feel that chirography relates more to handwriting and typography is all about the printed text. It affects thought and textuality by firstly thought being more flowing in relation to writing as your ideas opinions and feelings are expressed and the text is usually written according to time, place and era and as ideas are formed and typed in a logical way.
Hey guys, some good answers on here. I thought I'd try add some answers on question
ReplyDelete1.
residual features of primary orality can be seen in the lines
"Hear my words, you holy gods, great men and humble sons of Heimdall."
"By Odin's will, I'll speak the ancient lore, the oldest of all that I remember"
Just to add to question 2, yeah i agree with Adnan's and Seung Hee's answers. Primary orality is less based on writing or typing. Secondary orality is 'sustained by telephone, radio, television and other electronic devises that depends on their existence and functioning on writing and print' (Ong, 1982).
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2:
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Adnam and Jism have said. Ong (1982) argues that primary orality is people and cultures with no knowledge of writing. Secondary orality is “the electronic age”, which depends on writing and print. He points out that primary oral literature produces “powerful and beautiful verbal performances of high artistic and human worth”. Primary oral literature unites people together through spoken words. However, secondary oral literature creates detachment and independence. Ong continues that humans untouched by writing learn a lot more and possess great wisdom.
Question 3:
ReplyDeleteChirography is referring to basic alphabetic writing (handwriting), and typography is classed as print text, along with illustrations. Typography can be the choice of fonts, letter design, and syllables (for example, “Chinese characters, Japanese syllabary, and Mayan script” – Ong). Typography assists in creating visual fulfilment as well as interactivity for the readers.
Question 5:
ReplyDeleteShippey (2000) was extremely harsh when critiquing Tolkien, providing many examples of how Tolkien differed from the agenda of Modernism. For example, there is Tolkien’s use of introspection. Shippey expresses introspection as a “characteristic trick of even the simplest of modern novels”, suggesting it is impossible to present a narrative to readers without the use of introspection. Tolkien only manages to use this style of narrative once throughout Beowulf, giving us merely a glimpse into his characters mind. Shippey also states that modernists rely very heavily on literary allusion. Claiming that unless the reader realises the contrast between the words and their original contexts “the point of Eliot’s wasteland is lost”.